Suber on the radio...... Again!

[jsuber]

Hey guys. We were discussing the ban on fishing in areas and would greatly appreciate if you would listen to the banter at WFLA-FM 100.7
Please leave a comment on their site as it might help us get some radio time in our area for fishing.

[BigIrish]

California is the slippery slope of psuedo science and "overfishing". It drives out the very folks who could have fought with them against the "crazies".
Well done Jeff, while I dont agree on all your points, I do agree that people who agree with you 80% of the time are not the problem, it is those sneaky MFers who say one thing and do another when you are not looking, aka NOAA and their psuedo scientists - Koenig and Coleman. This is my post frrm the Florida Sportsman in October. They have since modified their statements to hide their bias but beware the statements are usually the truth!


Seminoles, Gators, and Bulls,
We need to keep watch over this study, I have a feeling we will be fighting it's findingss for a long time to come. I fear they want to close Reef Fishing all together and these are the scientists they hired to do it. I added the bolds to show where they are startiing from, "no mangroves, so there cant be goliath groupers," "snappers at an all time low," REALLY? I will keep an eye on them up here but they will be researching down there, so keep an eye peeled for them and make sure you "help" them when you can. Who knows maybe we can steer them in the right direction before it is over.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACTS: Christopher Koenig, (850) 697-4139; koenig@bio.fsu.edu
Felicia Coleman, (850) 697-4120; fcoleman@fsu.edu
October 2011
FSU BIOLOGISTS FISH FOR REASONS
BEHIND ENDANGERED GROUPER’S COMEBACK
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. –– In the waters along Florida’s east and west coasts, Florida State University marine biologists are collecting new data on the once severely overfished Atlantic goliath grouper, a native species that is making a comeback in the southeastern United States after a 21-year moratorium on its capture while remaining critically endangered everywhere else in the world.
The three-year study will determine what specific conditions and fishy behaviors are supporting the goliath grouper’s population recovery in the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of Mexico around the Sunshine State.
Findings from the research could help to answer several high-stakes questions: Is there a sustainable fishing level for this species? Or are there better economic uses of this marine resource?
The answers will be crucial to the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council and the South Atlantic Fishery Management Council. They set policy on the management and conservation of the slow-moving, inquisitive giants, some of which grow to lengths of 9 feet and weights of 400 to 800 pounds.
Meanwhile, the new study will be unique in two key ways.
“First, while in the past scientists had to sacrifice the fish to gather age, reproductive and predatory information, at FSU we’ve developed a non-destructive means of obtaining the data that spares its life,” said Florida State University Coastal and Marine Laboratory <http://www.marinelab.fsu.edu/> scientist Christopher C. Koenig <http://www.bio.fsu.edu/faculty-koenig.php> , who will lead the project with colleagues at the University of South Florida and the University of Florida.
“Second, those new, non-lethal data-gathering methods allow us to actively engage commercial and recreational fishermen in the scientific process,” Koenig said. “We will train the fisherman to obtain scientific samples, and to tag and release the fish.”
Among other revealing things, those samples will help Koenig and his colleagues assess the ages of individual Atlantic goliath grouper, which can live for up to 50 years. Learning the average age of the fish in the region should make clearer just how reproductively successful the species has been in the aftermath of the extreme overfishing that occurred in Florida coastal areas during the 1980s –– which triggered the fishing moratorium on goliath grouper that has been in effect since 1990.
The scientists also will investigate predatory behaviors and migration patterns that could be contributing to population recovery.
What they learn may guide future conservation and fishery management decisions on a wide range of specific issues.
“For example,” said Koenig, “a recreational catch-and-release enterprise, the scope and impact of which are currently unknown, has developed despite the moratorium on goliath grouper harvest. There also is considerable recreational interest in harvesting for science and in allowing restricted recreational harvest on a regular basis.
“Another relatively unstudied group with an economic stake in this species is the diving community,” he said. “Interest in underwater viewing of unexploited marine populations, especially including large animals such as goliath grouper, is on the rise.”
With competing interests to either reopen the goliath grouper fishery at some level or declare the species endangered, Koenig said “the management arena has become politically charged and begs for better scientific knowledge.”
Koenig and marine ecologist Felicia Coleman <http://www.marinelab.fsu.edu/faculty/coleman.html> , director of the FSU Coastal and Marine Laboratory, have studied goliath grouper life history and behavior for nearly 18 years and published a number of papers on the species’ biology, ecology and population dynamics. Their findings have demonstrated the importance of protecting mangrove habitat because of its critical value as nursery habitat for juvenile goliath grouper, whose nearshore survival rate affects the abundance of adults in the offshore environment. Koenig and Coleman have worked closely with commercial and recreational fishermen in many aspects of their research.
“While we’d like to be optimistic about their recovery, the reality is that goliath grouper are exceptionally vulnerable to fishing pressure,” Coleman said. “They also are vulnerable to habitat loss, which in the South Florida ecosystem has been altered to such a high degree over the last 100 years that suitable mangrove nursery habitat in all probability presents a serious bottleneck to production of this species.
Koenig points to a misperception that the goliath grouper is an invasive, nuisance species –- though the fish is a native that evolved for millions of years on Florida and Caribbean reefs.
“Fisherman may perceive that all other species they target, such as snapper, now are at an all-time low, and since the protected goliath grouper is on its way to recovery, they may assume the goliath grouper is to blame for the decline in the other species,” Koenig said. “But many of those other target species are themselves heavily overfished and still undergoing overfishing, and current data show that goliath groupers eat mostly crabs and slow-moving spiny fish and have a positive effect on the ecosystem because of the type of habitat they create by digging.”
“Clearly we must do a better job as scientists and fishery managers to educate the public about marine systems,” Coleman said.
Funding for the current Atlantic goliath grouper study comes from a $481,664 grant awarded to Koenig and Coleman by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Marine Fisheries Initiative <http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/grants/marfin.htm> . The research team also includes USF Assistant Professor Christopher Stallings and UF Associate Professor Debra Murie.
To read this article online and view associated images, visit the FSU news site <http://www.fsu.com/Featured-Stories/FSU-biologists-fish-for-reasons-behind-endangered-grouper-s-comeback> .

[capncrunch]

Pony up your data Big Irish. I would like to see what REAL looks like.

[cotton]

I just signed on to fcka to post "Suber's on the radio", and what do you know; he beat me to it. Nice job Jeff.

[Littoral]

Pony up your data Big Irish. I would like to see what REAL looks like.

This.
BigIrish,
If you're gonna take on scientists by accusing them of not doing real science it isn't gonna support
your argument to completely mis-quote them -and post their actual quote.
Your quote:
"snappers at an all time low," REALLY?
No, they were referencing a hypothetical argument sometimes made by fishermen,
that goliath are believed (by fishermen) to be major predators on other targeted game fish.
The example was snapper. They didn't say snapper numbers were at an all time low.

Meanwhile, what psuedo science was responsible for the trout & redfish increase?

[jsuber]

I can tell you the pseudo science issues with the Redfish Trout. Just last year they wanted to close off fishing for Reds and Trout. And 4 years ago the FWC peddled data that they collected one way for two years then changed their collection method for the next eight years then call it a 10 year study. They also do redfish study on inshore redfish and have no data for Reds after they move offshore. NOAA even acknowledged the collection methods and is working to improve the methods. I am proposing a tagging program that I have proposed many times but now we got new management. The idea is to get data that can be accountable and collectable. Then formulate an assessment from that data. This could be with one or many methods. I am most disappointed in closing areas from fishermen. We have had a successful program with the 1 Redfish limit and I would rather continue with that method.

[Talltails]

If they banned ALL wild fish from being harvested, I would still go fishing. Catching's where it's at. Just sayin'

[Littoral]

Agree on keeping 1 red. Getting useful data is nearly impossible.
The anecdotal info from fishermen, rec. or commercial, is often the
most "accurate". But basing policy on it? That would be like bankers
managing our money, oil companies regulating oil wells, politicians -well,
pretty much anything.
Suber, nice job on the radio. You didn't run with whatever bait Scott threw.
My only disagreement is the idea that California zones set a precedent.
Try & float that here. Not happening.

[BigIrish]

Public access to the nation’s oceans and coastal resources is being seriously threatened by the increased use of marine protected areas. In response, the American Sportfishing Association (ASA) and the Coastal Conservation Association (CCA) worked closely with congressional leaders on legislation to protect America’s 12 million saltwater anglers. Late last week, Senators John Breaux (LA) and Kay Bailey Hutchison (TX) reintroduced this legislation as the Freedom To Fish Act (S.1314).
From California to Florida, no fishing zones are increasingly becoming the marine resource management tool of choice. While recreational anglers account for just two percent of all fish landed in U.S. ocean waters, some environmental groups are calling for sport fishing to be eliminated ion anywhere from five to twenty percent of U.S. coastal waters. These arbitrary figures have nothing to do with good science contend the proponents of the Freedom To Fish Act. “The proponents are arbitrarily closing off these waters should be ashamed of themselves for short changing America’s conservation-minded anglers,” says Mike Nussman, ASA vice president. “Many no-fishing zones ban recreational fishing even when science clearly shows that anglers are not causing a problem to the resources. That’s just not smart management.”Nussman goes on to point out that recreational anglers are already regulated by a strict set of regulations ranging from closed seasons to catch limits to size limits and when enforced correctly, these regulations have proven to be effective at ensuring healthy fish stocks.“Time and area closures can be effective management tools when based on good scientific data,” said David Cummings, President of CCA, but arbitrary restriction of recreational anglers merely displaces fishing effort, increases regulatory confusion, increases user group conflicts and cast doubt on the entire fishery management process. It is a disservice to all U.S. Citizens.
Blanket marine closures take away the single most important element to sport fishing – the public’s access to the water. The Freedom To Fish Act would establish common sense guidelines and safeguards to preserve the public’s freedom to use and enjoy these resources. According to the legislation, only in those cases where recreational fishing has demonstrated adverse affects could be a specific, well-defined area is closed. Further, once established targets are achieved, that area would reopen immediately to recreational anglers. “Restricting public access to our coastal waters should not be our first course of action, but rather our last,” concluded Senator Breaux. In the eyes of this angler/guide, I feel a major relief over this subject. The banning of recreational fishing should be a last ditch effort to allow the stabilization of a resource. With the help of the CCA and the ASA we are seeing our voices heard in Washington through our elected officials. Let’s keep the pressure on till the Freedom To Fish Act is passed. We as anglers can no longer just be fisherman; we are the watchdogs of our precious resource
(End of article)
NIce try Professor, but this is real world, so it is not up to us to present real data, it is up to THEM, the PAID SCIENTISTS, to present real data so we can make informed decisions and apply the pressure that is required to have the commissioners vote in our favor, the SPORTSMAN/WOMAN.
Remember those who agree with us 80% of the time are not our enemy.

I am going off line for 10 days with my grandchildren, SO
Merry Christmas to everyone at FCKA! Thank you again for a wonderful year in Paradise! and a Happy New Year to ALL!

[Littoral]

(It's up to the scientists to get the real data)
"... so we can make informed decisions and apply
the pressure that is required to have the commissioners
vote in our favor, the SPORTSMAN/WOMAN."

" Facts are stubborn things;
and whatever may be our wishes,
our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion,
they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
-John Adams (Founding Father)

[Charles]

There is absolutely no sound reason to close areas to fishing. Tweak size/slot limits, bag limits, maybe closed seasons, as necessary. But the whole idea behind closed areas is total hogwash.

[cotton]

I'm with Charles. Worst case: A catch and release area.
If you haven't tried that, there can be no justification for a "No fishing" area.

[bk]

If they banned ALL wild fish from being harvested, I would still go fishing. Catching's where it's at. Just sayin'

Bingo! Well put Jason.

[jsuber]

Unfortunately, they are banning you from fishing too. That means no hook in the water. nada

[bk]

Unfortunately, they are banning you from fishing too. That means no hook in the water. nada

In that case, I'll be moving to Montana.